Law of the Land (Attn: Bella)

[Teddy]

Kiellan felt himself move toward the edge of his seat as he listened to Derren Asha'man. He had always considered laws a fascinating concept, especially with the complete absence of them in the Rahad, but as he heard the Grey Asha'man speak, that concept seemed to come to life. The man spoke about what exactly made something a law, about the correlation between laws and justice and the place of laws in the larger government of a nation. There were so many aspects that Kiellan had never even considered but that seemed so obvious now that he thought about it. This was only the introductory course, but Kiellan already knew he would follow every lecture. He had been reading up on the different laws on his own in his spare time, mostly as a cover for his true project of researching the Talent Earthsinging, but the dry books hadn't made the subject very interesting. Now that he heard the background, however, he would have to start anew with true concentration.

It was almost disappointing when Derren finished up the class by telling them their homework for the next lecture. Kiellan always loved studying, but he hadn't found something before that he was this interested in. The whole principle of taking away personal freedoms to create a larger freedom was so brilliant it was mind-boggling, and yet so simple. Each nation managed to create its own judicial system, all believing theirs superior, and it was amazing to see how different they were, but also that they all had some pretty significant similarities. Kiellan finally packed his stuff and got up to leave, feeling excited about having found something he was so interested in. He felt his stomach rumbling. It was probably time for dinner anyway. Right when he was about to leave the room, he stopped. A question had popped into is head, and he knew he wouldn't be able to sleep if he didn't at least ask it.

He waited patiently until most of the other Dedicated and Accepted had left, and the classroom had become a little more quiet, before he approached Derren Asha'man. "Excuse me, Asha'man, could I please have one moment of your time?" Even though the man had seemed kind, Kiellan felt a little nervous. You could never predict how an Asha'man or Aes Sedai responded, and he had seen other be scolded for speaking out of turn. Not all of them liked being questioned. "First of all, I wanted to thank you for your lecture. I never realized how interesting the law was, and your passion was inspiring." It was true, of course, but it also couldn't hurt to get the Asha'man on his good side. "One thing kind of left me wondering, however. You named some criteria of what could make a simple rule into a true law, but there was one thing you didn't name. Wouldn't a law also require general acceptance and acknowledgement? And even approval? If the rule fulfills all the other criteria, yet isn't accepted as a law by a large part of the country, is it still a law? And in the same way, if a sovereign creates a law that is unfair, but is in general accepted by the population as a law but not approved of, is that a law? I know there doesn't have to be a perfect synchronization between justice and the law, but is a law still a law if it has no relation at all with justice?" Kiellan had to take a deep breath when he was done, and blushed. Hopefully, the Asha'man wouldn't mind.

[Bella]

Derren generally enjoyed teaching. There was occasionally the student who tried his patience, which--while considerably better than in his youth--could still have its thinner moments, but on the whole, he found that the students who attended his present classes and lectures tended to be the ones who truly wanted to learn. Recalling himself as a young man in the Tower, he appreciated that trait in them and always sought to encourage it.

Standing behind his desk, he was collecting and straightening out his notes from the day's lecture, as well as assignments that he would be reading over later from a class earlier in the day. His focus was on the task when he heard the voice above him and lifted his head to see the young man before him. Dedicated. He rolled through his mind for a moment and then found the piece of information he needed: Kiellan.

He did not mind the boy speaking, because an active and engaged student was going to be a far better learner than one who was otherwise, and he had been polite, so why would Derren object. A very faint smile curved the far corner of one side of his mouth as he listened to the questions spilling from the youth, like he was afraid if he didn't get it all out then Derren would tell him to be quiet and not hear him out; perhaps other Asha'man or Aes Sedai would have done, but not this one.

The Grey set the stack of papers away and turned to face the young man, folding his arms and leaning back against the desk. "Law and justice are two separate concepts which we hope, which we should always try, to make sure are fully tied to one another, but that hope does not always make it so. A law itself will always be that which is determined by a land's ruling body, regardless of the approval or acceptance of the populace at large.

"The ruling body--whether monarchy, or council, or any variant--need approve, but the only thing a lack of approval in the population does is make the law harder to enforce, but makes it no less a law. Being approved as law does not make it intrinsically just, no, but it still is a law if the rule of the land has spoken that it is."

[Teddy]

To Kiellan's relief, the Asha'man let him finish. He had always hated it when people tried to teach him things, yet didn't allow him to ask questions to further elaborate on and clarify the issue at hand. Annoyingly, however, that wasn't a rare attitude at the Tower. Most of his teachers had immediately dismissed him after class, even if he had made it clear that he needed further explanation, and some of them had even sent him to the Master of Soldiers for what they called "lack of respect for his betters". It was good to find that not all Asha'man were like that.

The answer was not entirely satisfactory, however. "But isn't there a conundrum in that? One of the most important principles of law is that one can only be convicted offences that were illegal at the time they were committed, right? So if one person kills someone, but that's not illegal in that country, and a law passes the next day to make it illegal, that man can't be punished. However, oftentimes, after a change of leadership or a revolution in a state, the laws will change to what the new ruler or rulers believe to be good, whether that be for themselves of the state. Those rules are usually, in some respect, very different from the old rules. Most of the time, the new ruler will than declare the old laws to be 'unlawful'. He will punish the people of the old regime for crimes committed under the new law, even if those actions weren't crimes at the time they were committed."

Kiellan took a breath. He hoped his story still made sense. "So, if what you say is true, something that is law can suddenly become not-law, and be deemed to never have existed. It is then replaced by a new law, that is upheld retroactively, thereby violating one of the most basic principles of what a law is. The only way to justify that, it seems, is to say that the new ruler is correct, and that what had once been called law was in fact not law. But if what you say is correct, both of these were law. How can that be?"

Kiellan looked at the Asha'man uncertainly. He hoped he wasn't just wasting the man's time with his incoherent ramblings, but he was genuinely interested in this.


OOC: sorry for the late reply this week's been busy

[Bella]

Derren listened intently, because he did know that for anyone to truly learn a thing then they had to most thoroughly immerse themselves in that thing. Although his thought processes were a little convoluted, the Grey was able to follow what he was saying, although he feared that they young man's clearly logical, linear mind would still not be pleased by the answer.

"Just because something is a conundrum does not make it less real," Derren said, crossing his arms over his chest in a way that he students had learned meant he was engaged in a topic. "Reality and logic do not, by necessity, go hand in hand. What you say is true and it is a conundrum, but to say that the basic tenant of the law--between that which used to be and that which is now law--is only so because someone once said it was an aspect of the law."

The faintest of smiles curved the corners of his mouth. "It is unjust that a man should be convicted of a crime when that crime was not unlawful at the time, but you are still confusing justice and law. It is unjust, but sadly not unlawful, for if the ruler should happen to change that law..." He trailed off and let the point make itself. "However, in most nations, even though the ruler is the final word, they are rarely the only word. There are councils, advisers, parliaments, or any number of bodies that go alongside the ruler.

"As such, it is rare that such sweeping changes in law do take place or that the ruling body is indeed allowed to punish upon such changes, and in those nations where it happens, well, it is likely to have been a rough land in the first place." He paused. "Not that being as that would make it right or just, but simply reality."

OOC: No worries! I totally know how that goes.

[Teddy]

It took Kiellan some time to process all the information. He guessed the Asha'man had a point, although is still went against his instinct. Perhaps he would have to get over that if he was to further study the law. He hadn't been doing so for long, but he had figured out that there was no place for emotion or instinct in that field. That was probably for the best, but Kiellan had always trusted his instincts, and it would be hard to let go of that. It would be a good exercise, however, and a necessary one as well.

It was also true that the situation he had described was very rare, but Kiellan felt like the whole principle had to be universally applicable, or it would be worthless. As he realized his own line of thinking, Kiellan started to laugh. "Perhaps I should join the White, with the way I'm approaching this." It was just a joke; Kiellan knew he wasn't always a logical person, and he relied much more on his instinct, but today was the first time he could understand why anyone would choose that Ajah.

"Thank you for clearing that up, Asha'man, you've been most helpful." His natural Altaran politeness sometimes came in handy in the Grey Tower. The Asha'man and Aes Sedai always appreciated the way he spoke, and it helped him get on their good side easily. "If I may, I wanted to ask you an unrelated question as well. I've only found out recently how incredibly interesting this field of study is. I'm from the Rahad in Ebou Dar, you see. I don't know if you're familiar with the place, but it doesn't really have rules, let alone laws. As strange a concept as it sometimes seems, I loved your class today, and I've been studying a bit by myself. Are there any other classes or activities you could recommend for one interested in law?"

[Bella]

"I have somewhere I need to be shortly," Derren said as he pushed off the desk. "Walk with me and we'll talk more." He gathered some papers and a pair of books of his desk, one of which he should have a Brown coming down like a spirit of vengeance about any time now once they realized it was missing, and then waited for the boy to fall in step as he walked out the door and into the hallway.

The two men, despite quite disparate ages, were roughly the same in height and not far in build. Though like most "well aged" channelers, and certainly ones born of the Blight Border and from his bloodline, his presence seemed to make him a bit more than he was, or more than he felt some of the time. "Oftentimes," he continued as they walked, "we find that the things we grow up without are just the things that fascinate us the most, so your interest is hardly surprising, even being from where you are.

"To learn more, I would recommend any classes and lectures, or even just books, that speak to the nations of the world and to history. Both are needed to have a firm understanding of the law in modern times. If you wish another perspective, you can learn more about justice in practice and in concept outside of specific laws in the Blue Halls."

[Teddy]

"Of course, Asha'man," Kiellan said, trying to sound meek, as he followed Derren out of the classroom. He had never been good at meek, but he had learned a fair impression during his time in the Tower. As the man stood up, Kiellan noticed how tall the Asha'man was. In fact, he was about as tall as Kiellan himself, and that was rare indeed.

Kiellan gave a wry smile at Derren's words. It was definitely true, at least to some degree. There were a lot of things he hadn't had in the Rahad, and especially during his first couple of years in the Tower it had been fascinating to see how different things were there. Order and rules, of course, but also regular meals, the focus on study and knowledge and the emphasis on personal hygiene. Kiellan still remembered the look Rivaya Sedai, the Aes Sedai who'd found him in Ebou Dar, had given him when he told her how often he bathed. It hadn't been pretty.

He had been reading the books, of course, but he would have to see what other classes were taught on the subject. The Asha'man's words raised yet another question in Kiellan, however. "I'll be sure to read up on it. You mentioned the Blue Ajah, I had a question about that. I've been told the Blue Ajah is about righteousness and justice. Yet the Grey Ajah, your own, if I'm not mistaken, focuses on law and mediation. Now, I can see the difference, but it seems such a subtle and insignificant one. Could you tell me why those Ajahs are so different?"

[Bella]

Another topic that the Asha'man was well-versed in, given that the Blue ran strongly in the family line. From his grandfather to his aunt, the Blue had painted itself upon the name of Jolstraer. In truth, he was the first in direct blood to break from it, if you thought about it. His grandfather had been a Blue and his grandmother a Green. Of their three children, only one had proven a channeler and she'd chosen Blue.

His own father had not been a channeler, but Derren had been and now here he was. His niece Riahana had brought a Yellow into the family, though, but who could argue with a healer of Gareth's talents being on your side? And he was a good man who made Riahana happy, by all accounts, and added more to their family. Derren had enjoyed meeting his great nephew, Einion, who loved the library as Derren did.

"One might say that it's a matter of methods," the Grey said as they walked, only needing a few moments of thought to prepare to answer the question. "As I've already expounded upon, the law and justice can be more divergent concepts than they should be, so it's not difficult to see how one Ajah for justice and one for Law can be separated as easily as they are. But more than that, the Grey stands not just for law but for peace.

"We study the law and we are mediators of it, between conflicts. The Blue pursue justice in more active means, making them more about actions while the Greys are more important words. Actions always follow, but we talk first." He cast the faintest of amused smiles at the Dedicated. "To be Grey is to learn to talk well and talk often."

[Teddy]

Only a year ago, Kiellan would have thought the whole thing ridiculous. An Ajah that was dedicated to talking, to peace and mediation? He had grown up in an area that desperately needed peace, but he didn't think talking would help when you were getting beaten up by a group of strong, but usually very stupid men. His experience with the Arches ter'angreal during his Raising had changed his opinion on that, however. The Arches had shown him what violence could lead to, what hisviolence could lead to, and he was no longer as convinced that fighting back was always the best option. It could be necessary, of course, but there was certainly room for other options. Perhaps the Grey Ajah was more sensible than he had thought at first.

Derren's explanation of how the Grey was different from the Blue only strengthened that belief. If the Blue Ajah was justice, and the Grey Ajah was law, Kiellan was definitely on the side of the Grey. Justice was a noble cause, of course, and he supported the Blues with all his heart, and his talk with Mirin had shown him how noble passion for a righteous cause could be, but Kiellan had always been more practical. Principles were nice and everything, but if the other choice was practical improvement, he would choose the latter any time. If talking would help him reach that, than fine, he would talk.

Suddenly, Kiellan realized something. He hadn't been this interested in an Ajah since Fares Asha'man had told him about the Brown Ajah, and that had only been because he had been enticed by the promise of studies and exploration. He had loved Fares' stories, he had always loved them, but he wasn't sure if that was how he wanted to spend his life. He had felt the same about the Green. Yet this life, a life devoted to making sure people wouldn't have to live like he'd had to, didn't seem bad at all.

Perhaps it would be good to try to learn some more about the Grey. "Why have you chosen the Grey, Asha'man? Have you always been a... talker?"

[Bella]

The question drew a short, quiet, but not insincere laugh from the Asha'man. He held up his hand in apology that he was not laughing at the Dedicated as he shook his head. "No, I have not," he said honestly. (No Aes Sedai or Asha'man of the Light could lie, but that did not mean that they were always precisely honest. Derren, however, preferred it. Why try to obfuscate when the truth would do?)

"I was..." he continued, pausing for a moment to pick his best adjective, "...an impassioned young man. My temper was known for getting the better of me in my youth, and it got me into trouble on more than a single occasion." The details of this he did not, of course, get in to, but that summary was sufficient. "Then I came to the Grey Tower, here, and learned the structure of it."

He paused word and stride, opening the door to an empty room; it was another classroom, but a much smaller one. As if it was for a study group rather than a class. He gestured Kiellan into it as he seized saidin briefly to light a few candles and cast light.

"I enjoyed that about this place, and found that it helped sooth me. I learned that I liked that feeling of peace, and would go out of my way to help others to find it, and use the power of words rather than anger to find it and calm situations. As such, pursuing the Grey was a natural choice." He set his books and papers on the desktop, then turned and leaned back against it to face to Dedicated.

This was a conversation he'd had with others who considered choosing the Grey, and he found this much of his earnest tale helped to illuminate one path into it.

"I discovered that studying the laws of the lands helped me to learn the laws of one's self, and in doing so, I found peace. The peace that I found in myself then helped me to find peace with and for others, which is the ultimate goal of the Grey Ajah: diplomacy, mediation, law, peace, and harmony. It can be a hard road to reach some of those things, but we feel that it is worth trying through our own means."